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Post by anderston on Jun 4, 2014 11:22:26 GMT
In 1769 a breakaway church (from the established Church of Scotland (presbyterian) was set up in the parish of Anderston, Glasgow - Anderston Relief church.
According to the account given at the centenary celebrations in 1870 about choosing that first minister:
"after much and serious deliberation a longing eye was cast towards the English Nonconformists of the Doddridge school. The Revd Joseph Neill (Neil?) of keighley, Yorkshire, was at length invited."
He began his ministry in Anderston on 19th November 1770. He died in 1775. Would anyone firstly, have any info as to which church he belonged to in Keighley; and secondly, any info about the man himself? The note here shows that after his death, his sons returned to Keighley ("to be cared for by some friends in his first church") and his wife and daughter stayed about nine years in Anderston, until his wife died whereupon his daughter moved to Edinburgh.
Thank you in advance
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Post by fsharpminor on Jun 4, 2014 15:14:56 GMT
On Ancestry.com is a record (copy entry) of the baptism of his son, also Joseph in July 1760 in Keighley, and under denomination it just says 'Independant'. All we know is that its in the Non Conformist' archive do you knoe th others sons names 'cos I can look them up as well. There were quite a few Joseph Neils born in th right area of time, but its not possible to see which it is. Also cannot find a parish record for his death in Glasgow 1775 (Beethoven was 5 yrs old then !)
Oh , and its Neil not Neill !
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Post by anderston on Jun 5, 2014 16:49:46 GMT
More info: he is mentioned in the Centenary history as having been a congregationalist minister in Keighley -does that help to find ou t where he might have served ( photo?) . l have a copy of his published sermons (dated- 1776) and his surname is given as Neill oh the font page . | presume there was variation in spelling back then ? I have no info re sons . Thank you for the additional info. I too can't find any record of his death(Scotland's people) . The search continues!
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Post by anderston on Jun 9, 2014 6:32:40 GMT
more info from the Centenary celebrations: notes that neil died between 28th September 1774 and 28th February 1775 at the age of 48. the following link gives more information: www.maggieblanck.com/Land/ICK.html at the end of this online note it says that Neil was 'a talented Scotch student who having prematurely yielded to the impulsive force of love and conjugal affection against the laws of the Kirk [presumed to be the Established Church of Scotland] was dismissed by his inexorable presbytery... and was invited by the people of Keighley to become their pastor.' Notes that he was ordained in 1756 and further, that 'the parish baptismal book shows that Neil was pastor from at least March 1757 to July 1770. Would the 'parish baptismal book' mentioned be Church of England' or would there be a separate one for Nonconformists? the above info fits with the note provided by fsharpminor [thank you] and with the Centenary history which has his induction as minister in Anderston to be 19th November 1770. what was the process by which a 'talented Scotch student' arrived in Keighley? How did they know who/where he was, to have asked him? perhaps after his alleged lapse he left Scotland to be with family in K? |
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Post by fsharpminor on Jun 9, 2014 9:07:16 GMT
Ooh he'd been a naughty boy !
In those days almost all baptisms (and weddings) in England would have been at C of E (Parish) churches. But in Scotland as the established Church of Scotland is Presbyterian, the system would be different. Even myself b1947 was baptised at our own Keighley Parish Church, even though we were a Methodist family . So the Parish Baptismal Book you refer to would be Church of England. I will have another look at some records for you. Did you know the name of any more of his sons other than Joseph, who I guess was his first born ?
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Post by anderston on Jun 9, 2014 16:29:55 GMT
I have no further info than already given, but i'm searching.. If Joseph Neil were dealt with ,as it says above, in the Kirk by Presbytery then he would have been under their jurisdiction. Therefore he was probably a divinity student (Glasgow University??) - which also indicates partly why he was accepted by the Keighley church as minister, in that he would have some theological training and some pastoral training, being assigned to a local minister as an 'apprentice' during his studies. Had he been an ordinary parishioner who'd 'been naughty' his misdemeanour would have been dealt with at the local church level by the Kirk Session (management committee, responsible for the spiritual direction of the church). But I'm still intrigued as to how a Congregationaist church in Yorkshire even heard about a disgraced Scottish student!
The ?elder son Joseph, baptised in 1760 retured to Keighley with his ?younger brother in late 1774 or early 1775 after their father's death. 'to be looked after 'by friends of his first church'. Good friends, indeed, to take in two teenage boys as their own (elder boy being ?15 years old). I note that it doesn't say they went back to be with family (eg Aunts, Uncles etc)
Rough timeline so far:
Borh 1727; begins ministry in K 1756 (aged 28); Elder son baptised 1760 ( age 33); moves to Glasgow Anderston 1770 (age 43) Dies Glasgow 1775 (age 48).
I cannot fins any burial record either for him or his wife. Nor is there any record of his birth (at least not in the Scotlands People site).
As to how he got from K to Glasgow - I'm assuming that while he was a student in Glasgow he made acquaintances who remembered him (kept in touch?) and would therefore be able to recommend him as the first minister of Anderston Relief church. How else would would he be known?
He was buried in the graveyard which was next to the church. Both church and graveyard were flattened in the late 1960's to make way for the M8 motorway north of the Kingston bridge. The bones werte all swept up and buried in mass graves in Linn cemetery, to the south of the river. Thank you again for your help so far.
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maryb
Senior Member
Posts: 448
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Post by maryb on Jun 10, 2014 13:19:13 GMT
John Neil baptised Keighley non conformist Denomination Independent by Rev Mr Neil on 5/3/1757 and Anne Neil by Rev Mr Neil on 8/9/1758.
Maryb.
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Post by anderston on Jun 11, 2014 16:54:07 GMT
Thank you, maryb : more bits of the jigsaw! Could you tell me where this is from?
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maryb
Senior Member
Posts: 448
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Post by maryb on Jun 11, 2014 21:36:30 GMT
I found it on the parish records on Ancestry.co.uk.
Maryb.
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Post by anderston on Jun 12, 2014 18:49:51 GMT
Thank you maryb. Appreciated.
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