307 South Street - ? public house

[Admin]

Can anyone help with this query.......perhaps Eddie might have some idea....

You asked me to get in touch as soon as I could about the historical question I was asking if you could find out for me love.

The place Albert and his sister Mary Lived in as children was 307, South street ,Keighley. They told me they were led to belive that this house was supposed to have been a Public House, before they lived there as it was in a row of about 12 houses and their house was shaped very differently to all the other houses on the row. They don't know when their Mam and Dad moved into the house , but Mary is now 74years old and Albert is 73. That is the only information I can give you for now love, Thankyou for your efforts, it will be interesting to see what turns up. If you need anything else I can ask them and see if they know.

[vale]

307 would have been just after where Steptoes used to be, my guess is that if it was some sort of pub it would most liklye have been a beer house rather than a pub. A search in the census should provide a result to the use of the property.

[Admin]

Thanks Vale.....have tried to find it, BUT so far no luck....will keep on looking...thanks....

Jan

[kellytica]

I can only find evidence of one short lived beer house between the Hope & Anchor & Paper Mill (Ingrow) Bridge.
From information extracted from local Poor Rate collectors books it appears a beer house existed at Heys Gardens kept by James Ramsden. The 1851 census includes a James Ramsden aged 62 a gardener & Beer Seller of Heys Gardens.
By 1854 the owner is William Smith & the tenant is Thomas Dean the property described as a beerhouse with an address of Beech Grove. (The different addresses were the same property as they all appear in the collectors books at the same location).
The following year Thomas Dean is still at the property now described as a house & shop with the address now recorded as Knowle Cottages. It seems the attempts at running a beerhouse had ceased, the business continuing as a shop. There were many speculative attempts at running beerhouses locally many not surviving more than two or three years.
Going in the opposite direction from the Hope & Anchor towards the Kings Head Keighley there were at least four beerhouses at various times but once again all had ceased trading prior to 1868.
I doubt the Heys Gardens property would have been specifically constructed as a pub. Most early beerhouses were usually someones cottage or shop the ground floor converted by the addition of a few tables & chairs & a primitive bar. As Vale has suggested Heys Gardens was quite close to the premises once known as Steptoes a row of cottages did indeed face on to South Street

[maryb]

Hope and Anchor address 245,South Street so 307 @ 26 doors away but which way??

Maryb

[Admin]

Hi MAry - towards Ingrow Bridge, according to Kellytica and Vale....

Trying to help a couple out whose family lived there...BUT just lapsed my Ancestry........

x

[maryb]

On the corner where Steptoes there was house on the corner if I remeber correctly was a different shape and at one time it was a shop and maybe off licence.
The name Raymond Stewart comes into mind !!
The rest of the row were normal terrace houses which had a type of balcony round the back.

Maryb

Do you have the surname of the couple.

[Admin]

Hi MAry

Will ask the lady who is looking for the information.......

Jan

[maryb]

325,South Street was Miss E Steele Shop which was opposite Acorn Street.
About where the exit to the service station is now.

Maryb

[maryb]

Just been on 1911 site 307had 3 rooms Mr Coultan age 58.
305 had 3 rooms
309 had 3 rooms
Unlikely it was a public house.

Maryb

Maryb

[vale]

I think we have established that it was not a pub as Eddie would most defiantly know about it, although at this stage we can not totally eliminate that the property was not at one time a Beerhouse, as they were just that, a house which sold beer.
I have been fortunate in assisting (I use the term lightly) Eddie in his research of pubs and beerhouses and one thing I have learnt is that local rumour of where a pubs or Beerhouse was is often distorted.
My suggestion re the census was to see what the occupants that lived there did for a living which might shed some light on how this story started, it could be something as simple as the occupant worked for either the Hope and Anchor brew house or even Taylor and “sold” some of the beer to people they knew.
Does that fit with any of the entries Mary, unfortunately I do not have access to the census so I am unable to look it up, if you could look at the occupation esp for 1841 it might help?

[maryb]

Hi Jan,
I have sent you the cover for 1911 showing 307 a couple of doors away from Beech Mills.
Going down towards Keighley.

Maybe Albert and Alice could see the old photo of Halifax Rd and maybe it will jog their memories as to where 307 was.

Maryb

[kellytica]

In the 1901 census 307 & the other 12 properties in the row were described as being in Heys Gardens. This was the name of the row as you say that ran from the mill toward Woodhouse Road. My mother was born at Heys Gardens and I had a primary school friend who lived in one on the cottages on South Street known as Heys Gardens. I visited regularly in the 1950's.
Incidentally in the 1901 census the cottages had 2 or 3 'occupied rooms' alternating so one cottage had 2 rooms while next door had 3 rooms, next door 2 then 3 etc. This may account for the comment that the house was different to others. It would appear to be different to its immediate neighbours as they seem to have one room less according to the census data.
There is no reason I know of why one of these cottages couldn't operate as a beerhouse in the 1850's provided the occupier paid 2 guineas for an excise certificate to sell beer & could provide a character reference. A justices licence wasn't required to sell just beer or cider. There was no minimum size requirement; at least one early Keighley beerhouse operated in a cellar.

[Admin]

The parents names were James & ? Mary Brayshaw...

The brother and sister requesting the info are Mary & Albert....both still living......so have to be careful....

Thanks all.

Jan

[maryb]

My mums friend was Mary Brayshaw,she lived at the first house on the right as you go down Woodhouse Road.

Maryb

[Admin]

Mary

Did she have children.....? Was this house on South Street or as you turned down the hill.....
I am intrigued by this now........even though nothing to do with me.....

Thank you Jan

[Admin]

Looking through the maps the society bought a few months back....most of these have the houses numbered on them.

From the left by the Hope & Anchor, which does not appear to be on this particular section we have
251, 253, 257, 259 & 261 which backed onto Woodhouse Road, where we have 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11.
One the opposite side of Woodhouse Road at the very corner a house which took up the whole of that corner...shaped into it was 263 which had no 2 Woodhouse Rd on the back or under it....
then 265, 267, 269 and 271 backing onto these were 4, 6, 8, with what looks like 10, 12 and 14 underneath the back section clubhouse style the whole of this block appears to have been called Ashfield Place. No 16 was further down Woodhouse Rd

I do not have the second map which coveres South Street upwards.....but at least we know...that 271 would be approximately where Steptoes was....and Eddie and Vale are correct that 307 was further along..........

Thanks Mary, Vale & Eddie for all your help in this.....

Jan

[maryb]

Hi Jan,it was actually the top house Woodhouse Road which is now adjacent to the yard to the printing shop where Steptoes was.
Maybe they moved there after being at 307.
I have rembered it was Reggie Newton who had the corner plot at the corner of Woodhouse Road and South Street.
It was a bicycle and swap shop at one point.

So are we in agreement that 307 was on the row which is on the photo I sent you.
I have done a bit of research on Mary Brayshaw nee Bailey and she was married to a James and they had boy and girl born Leeds.

Mary and Albert,Mary being her middle name.

I knew quite a lot of names from the row in question,just wish I could remember Mary Brayshaw their mum living there.

Maryb

[maryb]

My memory hasn't totally gone,I thought Reg Newton had a grocer's shop at one time.
1961/2 Phone Book records shows Reg Newton at 275,South Street Grocers shop.

Maryb

[maryb]

Can you ask Mary and Albert if they remember any of these names,they lived in the houses where the jet station is now.
I lived in that area 1955-1970.
Ernest and Phyliss Feather they had a daughter,Audrey and Bernard Broster had a son Mr and Mrs Fletcher had a son?
Two houses had mum and daughter Richardson and another daughter lillian richardson had a child?
Miss Steels shop I think had two houses.
Across the road at Acorn St were Farrar,Merrall and Roff.
Where the Super Wok is at bottom of Acorn St the Wilsons.
The transport cafe had the James family.

I'am sure 307 was at the end of the row between Prospect Mill ie Haggas's and Laxtons and Beech Mills which I think was Hirds just before it burnt down in the 60's going down towards Steptoes.
This row was knocked down after 1970.

Maryb

[Admin]

Will pass all the information on - Phyllis & Ernest were good friends with my mum and dad, I spent many happy hours at their little house on Halifax Road....they did indeed have a daughter whose name escapes me...........

Ernest actually accompanied my Dad (driving) when Dad took me to my honey moon destination...........Bridlington........how times have changed......

Jan

[maryb]

It was Margaret, my husband informed me today that he may have a photo of the row where Ernest lived.
It was taken form the land over the road years ago,hope he can find it.
Ernest and Phyllis went to live up Rawling Street.

Maryb

[barcroftlad]

Jan 24, 2011 21:51:22 GMT Admin said:

Looking through the maps the society bought a few months back....most of these have the houses numbered on them.

From the left by the Hope & Anchor, which does not appear to be on this particular section we have
251, 253, 257, 259 & 261 which backed onto Woodhouse Road, where we have 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11.
One the opposite side of Woodhouse Road at the very corner a house which took up the whole of that corner...shaped into it was 263 which had no 2 Woodhouse Rd on the back or under it....
then 265, 267, 269 and 271 backing onto these were 4, 6, 8, with what looks like 10, 12 and 14 underneath the back section clubhouse style the whole of this block appears to have been called Ashfield Place. No 16 was further down Woodhouse Rd

I do not have the second map which coveres South Street upwards.....but at least we know...that 271 would be approximately where Steptoes was....and Eddie and Vale are correct that 307 was further along..........

Thanks Mary, Vale & Eddie for all your help in this.....
Jan
quote


Without wanting to hijack this interesting thread, you have touched on an area of interest to me. My dad was born at 10 Woodhouse Road, in 1910. Does anyone know when they were demolished? I tried to find them on a visit a few years ago and there were no houses there. Thanks.

[eric]

I picked up a lady today in my cab, and knowing she grew up in the Ingrow area, I asked her if she could remember just where 307 South St was, and she replied "Oh yes, it was where the Jet Garage is now" " You seem very positive" "I repied "So I should be" the lady said "I lived at 309 South St from 1928 to 1974!" and she did recall hearing that 307 was a pub, but it wasn't in her lifetime. I know this ladies name and address, but can't pass it on without her express permission.

[Admin]

Hi Eric

If you speak to her again....ask her if you can pass it onto me....privately....as I say My Auntie Phyllis & Uncle Ernest Feather lived on the site of the filling station.....must have been neighbours.......

Thanks so much.


Jan

[maryb]

Hi Jan did you play in Ernests allotment round the back,I spent hours in there with him collecting pears.
He also used to make this thing out of rope for me to light my fireworks.
He was a lovely man.

So it does look as though we have found correct place now.

Maryb

[barcroftlad]

Jan 27, 2011 9:10:26 GMT maryb said:

Hi Jan did you play in Ernests allotment round the back,I spent hours in there with him collecting pears.
He also used to make this thing out of rope for me to light my fireworks.
He was a lovely man.

So it does look as though we have found correct place now.

Maryb

That was probably tarband Mary. We did the same, light fireworks with it, and used to hold it in our cupped hands to keep them warm. Cheers.

[maryb]

Not sure if this is relevant,I have been going through the census records .
1891 D14 > 10 313 Heys Gardens South Street Mr Henry Bell age 60 born Lancs a Herb Beer Brewer.
1901 313,Maria Bell widow.age 42.
1911 313,South street Mrs Bell

1891/1901/1911 Leach Coulton at 307,South street he died 1917 he was a warp dresser
1881 Leach Coulton with parents at 459,Heys Gardens.
1871 Charles Coutlon (dad of Leach) Paradise South Street.

Maryb

[maryb]

www.old-maps.co.uk 1962-1969 map keighey.
Zoom on to Ingrow part its a bit fiddly,when you get right part zoom into South Street and you can make out 325 which was Miss Steels shop then follow it up to 301 towards keighley.

The photos my hubby had are no help I'm afraid.

Thanks Barecroft lad,I can remeber the smell it made and it kept lit for ages.


Maryb

[keighleyboy]

Hello Maryb,
You mention Raymond Stewart. I remember he had a workshop down Paradise, which I seem to remember was down below or part of Heys Garden. He did a bit of welding down there, and did a couple of jobs for me in the 1950s/1970s. I knew his family well.